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harry
there is a difference. craptasty is more of anaquired taste that takes several doses for it to be likeable(ecargo)and crap is just, well…
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Quirky
To me craptasty is when someone tried to actually make a good film but failed (Battlefield Earth) and you can laugh at the mistakes, while a crap film is when someone didn’t even try to make something good (Avengers) and it ends up being a waste of your time.
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Kevin
You see, that’s the difficulty with this issue. I can actually enjoy Avengers for its minor charms (lovely set design, lovely Uma in tight clothing, Ralph Fiennes in a bowler) while I have never been able to even stomach Battlefield Earth long enough to make it through the first half-hour. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.
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Kevin
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Quirky
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Frank Anderson
Isn’t there a saying that says ‘one mans crap is another means treasure’ or something like that?
I would ask you- What is worse- the bad movie made by an amature film maker, or a bad movie made by an experienced film maker who should have known better?
It would be awesome is bad movies did not exist, but there will always be movies some people think is ‘crap.’
That is the nature of life.
I think that there are many awesomely bad movies out there, and there are also some movies that should never be shown to human eyes ever again.
I think the real problem comes when people assume that because the current pop culture tastes do not meet their own, that this means that the quality of movies is eroding.
It is a bit like trying to blame ‘Transformers 2′ for the demise of the drama, when it is really the fact that Hollywood is not making dramas that mesh with what the public wants pay money to see which is the problem.
Great post, Lisa! I may not always agree with you, but I always love reading your pieces.
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Frank Anderson
My kingdom for an edit function!
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ernie
Craptastic stuff is so funny/fun/weird that you enjoy watching the whole thing without analyzing it. It has a certain childish glee to it, and a certain coolness
Stuff that’s just crap is not only bad, but boring, offensive, and small-minded.I think most of the time what separates crap from craptastic is memorability. If it pops up in your mind, you want to watch it again, and you’ll never forget it, even if it’s bad, chances are it is the cream of the crap crop.
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torrence5
I know it made money & critics were overall positive about it – but I think “Distict 9″ was plain crap. I walked out of this movie & am glad I did despite paying for it at the theater. A moive like “Eragon” is craptastic – not a very good movie, but one I enjoyed nonetheless
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Danno
Eragon couldn’t have been more of a Star Wars rip-off if they had actually dedicated it to George Lucas. That movie is terrible.
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Kathy
Now I thought “District 9″ was amazing! It provoked such thought and discussion (at least at my house and in my neighborhood) and the acting was phenomenal. So it doesn’t fit either “crap” description as set forth here. Now the “Clone Wars” film WAS crap! Lucas could have done SO much better!
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Yesenia
I thought D9 would be crap but it was actually very well written, well acted and I actually enjoyed it.
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Yesenia
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Danno
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Bobby’s Robot
Man, I miss MST3K! MITCHELL!!!
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Jack
Even the name says, “Where’s the Beer?”
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Jack
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Katja
I don’t think enjoying craptastic movies encourage laziness. I would think few filmmakers aspire to be craptasy legends. Here’s how I see craptasy – it can be a very individual thing, but it’s always something that rationally, you know is utter crap, but it still tickles your funny bone in such a way as to make you fond of it, whether it’s campy performances, adorably poor special effects, absurd non-sequitur-like dialogue or editing…whatever. It’s not that standards are for snobs or squares, it’s that the movie manages to amusingly ignore any kind of standards, or tries too hard for them and overshoots, and you can’t help but experience a little schadenfreude. “My Baby’s Daddy” = crap, because it sucked, and it did not suck entertainingly; it just felt like a 4 hour movie because it was so boring. Non-movie example that is at the tip of my mind from reading a different post on EW.com: Eddie “The Eagle” was a craptastic ski jumper. He sucked so bad he seriously risked his life every time he jumped, and people loved him for it. So he was not just crappy, he was craptastic. One of my favorite recent craptastic movies is “10,000 BC”. I study anthropology/archaeology and human evolution, and that film was 10,000 kinds of wrong. Which made it utterly hilarious to me (woolly mammoths building pyramids in a desert? REALLY?), and that (combined with pretty actors and CGI to make it easy on the eyes) makes it craptastic! Logically a terrible movie, but I bought it on DVD because it was still appealing through its absurdity. Granted, that appears to be Mr. Emmerich’s standard M.O. for movies, but that doesn’t mean other directors will get lazy and make awful “popcorn movies” all the time. You’ll always have your Scorceses and Spielburgs who generally try to make really quality movies, with occasional failures. Anyways, craptasy makes life fun. Sometimes you just can’t help but appreciate an entertaining train wreck.
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john
Craptastic is a person ideal. It’s fun to watch but either you won’t admit to watching it or derided for watching it, ie “The Fifth Element,” and made better by Rifftrax. A Craptasty is a big picture that has no redeeming value and can’t be saved by snarky MST3K commentary, ie “Eyes Wide Shut” and “Battlefield Earth.” Crap movies can only be watched with snarky commentary, ie “The Marine.”
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Gina
I always (when nothing better is on) watch “The Fifth Element”. Cheesy yes, craptastic yes, but funny as hell.
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Kaybar
“The Fifth Element” is one of my favorite movies, along with”Demolition Man”. I can watch them, enjoy them for what they are, and immediately forget about them. That’s what craptastic means to me.
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J.B.
Perfectly put Kaybar.
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J.B.
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Gina
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wtf
I think QUIRKY said it best. For me it is about he effort of the filmmakers. There are b movie directors who do their best to put out a movie with the limited resources they have. A movie like Transformers 2 angers me so much because I believe there was no effort to make it a good movie. BAY had an unlimited budget but didn’t even bother putting in any type of plot or acting in it because they knew it would make a kajilllion dollars no matter what. Compare that to Toxic Avenger, which I think defines craptasy.
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Nerwen Aldarion
So good it’s bad, my favorite has to be Paradies with Wilie Ames and Phoebe Cates. My father put it on demand one day thinking my sister and I might like it. The acting, the plot the fact that the monkeys are the smartest characters goes to show just how wonderfully awful this movie is. My sister and I ended up making up our own dialogue as we went along resulting in a fun time had by all. We bought it on DVD so we can relive the magic of how horrible it is!
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danny segal
bad films that become cult calssics are either exeptionaly bad, like an ed wood film, or have a compensating element, like a star performence. like in bruce lee films.
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Sean
For me fantastic and craptastic are seperated by artistic merit vs. entertainment value. For example, I would give The Godfather an A rating. It is a well-acted, beautifully filmed piece of art. However, I would also give an A rating to the comedy Airplane. Despite the fact that it is barely more than a constant stream of lowbrow humor, I have rarely been that entertained by a film.
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PeterBilt The Nature Boy
Airplane is my 2nd favorite comedy of all time!!!!!! Love the Zuckers.
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Kathy
I still remember seeing Airplane in the theater a hundred years ago, with my mom and an Australian foreign exchange student. Odd mix of moviegoers but we all laughed ourselves silly!! Great film, and my kids quote it even today (as do my husband and I).
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Kathy
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Danno
A craptastic movie is universally accepted as being bad but you can’t help but watch it because of how hilariously bad it is. The movie must also be entertaining. Jason X, Plan 9 from OuterSpace, and Santa Clause on Mars all come to mind.
A just plain crap movie is one that is not only bad but completely unentertaining and pointless as well. Showgirls, the 2008 version of The Day the Earth Stood Still (the original 1951 is to this day one of the best Sci-Fi films ever made), and Vulgar (IMDB it if you’re curious but don’t watch. It is truly horrible in every conceiveable way) come to mind.
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Keil Shults
Finally got around to seeing Troll 2 a couple of months ago. I’ve been on suicide watch ever since.
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Claire
I saw Troll 2 a couple of months ago too, and the experience of watching it at the cinema was the best movie-going experience of my life.
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Claire
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harry
Snakes on a plane!!!
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Danno
YESSSSSSSSS!!!!! Snakes on a Plane is truly the definition of CRAPTASTIC.
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Kevin
I don’t think that Snakes on a Plane can be considered craptastic since its intended goal was to be craptastic…since it hit its target, it has to be considered a good film. Same with something like Anaconda…it’s exactly what it wants to be so it can’t be craptastic.
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Geena
When movies set out to be “campy” and bad I don’t think it usually works. SOAP was mostly just sort of dull and cliche. Although the lavatory scene brought a pretty decent laugh.
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Danno
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t.g. pierson
I think there is a difference and each viewer has a specific reason for liking an overall crappy movie. The one that comes to mind for me is Carnosaur with Diane Ladd. While I will admit that this is not a good movie, story and production values simply stink, I have to admit that I did enjoy the experience watching it for two reasons. I always get a thrill at watching people get eaten by extremely large animals (in this case dinosaurs), and second Diane Ladd is such a great actress that she does deliver an almost great performances as the lonely mad scientist that creates said dinosaurs. The intensity that Ladd brought to such a hammy role was actually a shock to me because the role is so poorly written that I was amazed how such a great actress could actually bring life to the character. All in all, there is a craptastic movie for everyone, and the reasons behind liking a crappy movie will vary for everyone. That said…I still do not think that Transformers 2 could have been made into a good movie with any director, though it may have been made into an interesting one by say Terrece Malick or Paul Thomas Anderson, but in what universe would such virtuoso artists make that type of movie?
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Frank Anderson
Who would have ever thought that Spike Jonze would have made an artistic statement with a kids book?
Anything is possible in film!
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Frank Anderson
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Evvie
TROLL 2 = EPICALLY CRAPTASTIC
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jmiklane
I think it’s OK to enjoy crappy movies that are crappy because of a low-budget or amateur mistakes. However, a movie that is made for millions of dollars (Transformers 2) should not be enjoyed for being crap. Because that will churn interest, and interest will cause more production. If people go see Transformers 2 because they hear it is so bad… it’s still going to make more money. It would be seen as a success. If that happens, more crap will be made for millions of dollars.
The movies on MST3 were “craptastic” because they were low-budget and usually had terrible actors. It is not a GOOD thing that they are made, but at least excusable and usually hilarious.
Imagine David Beckham and me playing soccer. If David Beckham starts to suck big time, it’s a waste of money and it’s not cool/funny or it shouldn’t be interesting to watch. Whereas if I try to play soccer like David Beckham and epically fail in front of a willing audience, it has the potential to be hilarious. Maybe it would be so embarrassing that I try to improve. Or maybe I would just quit and have to laugh at myself and be proud of my notoriety.-
Penny
Very good anaolgy. I think you make a great point.
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Lisa Schwarzbaum
So if I understand this right, a craptastic movie is crap we enjoy, and just plain crap is a bad movie that doesn’t strike us as hilarious?
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jmiklane
For some reason, I can’t respond directly to Lisa’s post.
Lisa, you’re right, but that’s not my point. If we go by personal taste, you have millions of different opinions on what is hilarious and what isn’t. I have friends who enjoyed Transformers 2. That would classify it as craptastic by what you said. Everyone’s opinion is different, so let’s avoid going there.
My point has to do with money. A movie like Transformers 2 is heavily produced and heavily promoted. How many millions were spent on it? If the end product is a complete waste of film, then it’s sickening to think that all that money was just flushed down the toilet when it could have been put to better use elsewhere. Whereas if somebody makes a crappy movie on a minuscule budget, it’s not a huge deal and if it’s funny then why not laugh at it? Troll 2, to me, is a perfect example because it’s funny to me.
How about Glitter. Did that movie have a huge budget? Actually, I don’t think so. That, to me, would classify it as “craptastic” if somebody enjoys it.
Bottom line, a script that is utter crap should not receive massive funds from a studio.
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Lisa Schwarzbaum
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Penny
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MsSuniDaze
The very first movie that comes to mind as Craptastic is Armegeddon. It’s so bad…it’s on the verge of being good (I cringe even admitting that). First you have the massive ego of Michael Bay, overly dramatic acting and music, the constant slow-mo’s and the eye rolling patriotic themes. Just the entire lameness of the movie makes it great because it’s trying to be so serious but it’s just an overly produced B movie. But then you have a movie like Tremors…which is actually good and is meant to be like a B movie. It’s when a movie tries too hard to be something it’s not that can make it craptastic.
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jennie
funny you mention tremors, my hubby locves that movie. I have seen them all., it was abour rhe 3rd time watching the 1st one that i relized they were all in on the joke which made it more enjoyable to watch
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Gina
I really like Armageddon. Always watch it when it comes on.
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jennie
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Claire
But what about things, like French New Wave Cinema. The camera shots are intentionally shoddy, there’s bad lighting, jump cuts, unneccessary scenes, bizarre and banal and pointless dialogue, as well as fairly typical plots. The point of them is to be below the normal standards of Hollywood, they liked B movie directors like Howard Hawks. And yet a film like ‘Breathless’ is funny and consider to be of great academic value.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
I believe that is a screen cap from the “Future War” episode, so that would have been Mike, not Joel.
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Lisa Schwarzbaum
Wow.
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Mr. B Natural
The first thing I thought of was “that’s not Joel”. Hey, it’s my favorite show of all time.
“Why don’t they look?”
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Kelmar
Love your name, Mr. B Natural. Servo and Crow’s debate over whether Mr. B Natural was a man or a woman is one of the funniest debates ever!
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Kelmar
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Lisa Schwarzbaum
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Sea Frog
The Killer Tomato series, featuring George Clooney in one of them and John Astin in most of them, are so bad that they’re great. Why Oscars were never nominated for any of them I’ll never know.
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stella
Crap is usually bland, unoriginal, and plainly offensive (like Hannah Montana the Movie).
Craptastic has this slight redeeming quality of effort, of genuine love invested by its creator (that’s why Ed Wood is such a craptastic director) that we the viewer can feel and distinguish from plain crap. The director genuinely tried to make it fun and interesting, and it paid off, in a manner of speaking. Admit it, you’ve never seen anything quite like Troll 2.
I discovered last night that Twilight is actually craptastic. I watched it with a friend for the first time since it came out, and we were pretty much crying with laughter throughout the poorly acted, low-budget scenes (yet injected with these weird Hardwicke moments that made the whole thing worthwhile).
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Nick
John mentioned it above, but I think Lisa deserved to mention Rifftrax.com, which is what MST3K creators are doing today. It’s tremendously enjoyable, and has given us an excuse to go back to our DVD collections and revisit our favorites.
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Dude
Alright — COMMANDO. With Arnold Schwarzanegger and Alyssa Millano. God-awful movie, but one you can sit through and enjoy nonetheless. He drives a jeep that flips over and goes on fire, and the next shit, he’s running around like nothing happened. We don’t even see how he got out! It’s so horrendously bad, but you expect nothing more from it. Absurd shoot-em-up that you can laugh at and enjoy non-stop throughout. “Leave anything for us?” “JUST BODIES.”
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Danna
“Bob Johnson”
“Huge Largemeat” -
Lindsey
Does anyone know what movie they are watching in the MST3K photo from above?
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Kelmar
That was “Future War.” It’s about a human slave from the future that lands on present Earth, only to be pursued by trained killer dinosaurs and cyborgs with no thumbs and – oh, just watch it.
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Kelmar
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Justin
To me the best kind of bad movie is one where ibelieve the people involved were trying to make something good and failed miserably. It is hard to tell sometimes whether this was the case, though. Were them akers of Leonard, Part 6, Pluto Nash and the Island of Dr. Moreau actually trying?
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RobertB
My rule of thumb? If i eject the DVD within the 1st 10 minutes, it is crap. If I hang on because it is crap but funny, it is craptastic. If I say WTF or “what were the thinking,” it is crap.
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RobertB
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Kevin
All I know is some group of friends somewhere in the world gather around and have the time of their lives watching the collected works of Uwe Boll. A group of my friends watch bad, post-70s-prime Burt Reynolds movies. Take a movie like Malone…craptastic. But at the time, it actually got decent reviews. So, time plays a huge factor in the debate. Plan 9 from Outerspace was considered Z-movie crap in the 50s but from a 2009 perspective, it’s really not even that bad…it doesn’t make sense, it’s poorly acted, but it is still highly entertaining. At the time that Burton’s Ed Wood was made, Plan 9 had been elevated to craptastic. Now, I think a lot of people actually consider it essential viewing (I know I do). So, only time will tell how a film will ultimately be perceived by the public.
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Craptastic or crap: How do you tell the difference?
In addition to assembling a fantastic list of perpetually rewatchable movies, many of the posters who joined in the party here the other day provided intriguing criteria for what makes a film addictive: Commenters celebrated the pleasures of comfort movies, noise movies, great movies, romantic movies, crying movies, cheesy movies, guilty-pleasure movies, and so-bad-they’re-good movies, among other categories.
It’s the so-bad-they’re-good subdivision I’m most interested in at the moment, an unintentional genre that I think of as relatively new–and just possibly dangerous. I mean, remember the genius cult TV creation Mystery Science Theater 3000? When stranded human Joel Robinson and his robot sidekicks Tom Servo and Crow (that’s them, above) were forced by evil scientists to watch bad movies, the accidental moviegoers were under no illusions that the stuff on the screen was craptastic–it was pretty recognizably crappy, and ripe for a running commentary that was the real point of the show.
“Craptasy” (did I make that word up?) assumes an ironic, hipster-y (did I make that word up) acceptance of blithe bad taste and bad production as if standards are for snobs and squares. And left unchallenged, I think that kind of “whatever” attitude leads to an erosion of quality. Not to mention a mass mentality of laziness on the part of us ticket-buyers that excuses the production of more…crap.
But don’t take my word for it. Do you think there’s a difference between craptasy and crap? If so, tell me what it is, or what it isn’t. As a reward, here’s a thrilling clip of MST3K ’s Tom Servo and Crow debating Mac vs. PC years before John Hodgman and Justin Long got into the commercial biz: